I think that the Bible did speak to lesbianism approvingly.

You sound very unsure, and I can understand that from my past. But I think the best advice I could give you, is be true to yourself, don’t sell yourself short.

Follow Jesus, not man. Even if man tells you they speak for Jesus, which many do. Read the scriptures with an open heart, and remember that all of the scriptures, all of the sermons you hear, they all SHOULD have to do with the basics, Love God, and Love your Neighbour. If they try and tell you that there is something else required, you are being lied to.

If you dont want to be a promiscuous person, dont be! Keep your values. But that does not mean you cannot love you you want to love.

You dont need 100 lovers, you can live your life with 1 person whom you love and trust. Show compassion, care for the people around you, serve the people around you, and you will be just fine.

Thats the good news of Jesus.

My reference was to the law as understood in this country since 1787, or even 1607. The 14th Amendment was not understood to grant all the rights the Left now purports it granted.

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Again, I remind you that the 14th Amendment was not in existence in either 1787 or 1607.

You’re still wrong, and still a bigot. And I will no longer be engaging with you, because you’re just here to troll. Good day, sirrah.

Your whole argument against equality under the law is based on animus, hatred and bigotry. If you don’t like it when people point that out, perhaps you should reconsider your argument.

It also relies on assuming there is one single interpretation of the 14th Amendment, though the Court can’t even agree on that, though its interpretation changes from year to year, and though even majority opinions based on it are often cobbled together with the barest of majorities based on concurring opinions (e.g., Plyler v. Doe (1982) - a bare 5-4 majority with 3 concurring opinions).

Troll? Perhaps you, but certainly not me.

To add any layers in between our savior and ourselves doesn’t make sense. If all of man are fallen, and all of man are sinners, then why would we allow any of them to get between us and God?

But because of the plan of salvation’s easy fit for any heterosexual person that subscribes to these ideals (which is most of the population) the church works for 90% of the Mormon population and so it’s easy for them to follow. The rest of us unfortunately get left behind. Which is exactly the message I understood of Christ, which was to take care of the people who are left behind.

I know some very nice individual Mormons, make no mistake. Some of them are from this very site. I admire those who are trying to make change from within, but I have a far greater understanding of those who vote with their feet.

I just cannot imagine people thinking that Jesus would only love people if they were straight and willing to have a zillion kids. Oh, and take as gospel the word of angry old men who are, IMO, afraid of losing their hegemony as the world changes around them.

People who convert to Mormonism are usually searching for answers. To give them even a hint that they might have had the wool pulled over their eyes makes them feel unsafe. No-one likes to be unsafe. So I long ago decided that I will let my mother believe what makes her happy, and that’s worth more than anything in the world. To believe in any church you want is not wrong, I know God will still judge her based on the same precepts that all of us will be judged on as stated by Jesus in the Bible:

Truly Love God. Truly Love Your Neighbor.

And I believe she does that, and I try to do that everyday. I believe Love wins, and I will be with her in the afterlife with God, not because she is Mormon, but because she followed the basic principles of Christ.

No matter how wonderful many of the Mormons are on this site, it will never change the fact that the church is run by men who are appointed as leaders by like-minded people who will never change their minds.

The Mormon gospel has no room for gays. If they make room, then it’s a changing gospel and loses it’s stranglehold. You aren’t allowed to waver in your beliefs remember?

I wish the Mormon church was a true and pure church of Christ. I don’t know many churches that even come close to this. Alas, it’s a church of Men for the most part. As it is run by men and men make all the decisions.

Sure, there’s lots of really really awesome things in the church. And I’ve read most of the book of Mormon and I found some good things in there too. And obviously there are many many wonderful followers. But no matter how many followers change their minds and truly love their neighbours, it will not change the church doctrine and the prophets themselves.

I know many people on this site pray and hope for a more inclusive Mormon church, but unfortunately, unless they change their entire vision of the afterlife, gays will never be included.

Who wants to settle for second-best? Who wants to accept that they either have to never experience true love and partnership with the object of their affections? Who wants to never truly be part of the “big plan” in the afterlife.

Oh sure, all the straight people will be gods themselves and rule over worlds. Ill just be one of their assistants? since I cannot produce spirit children and I’m not married to a woman in the temple.

All of it is absurd. And to think that Mormons are changing is kind of naïve. It’s like ignoring the entire precepts of Mormonism, in the hopes that the Mormon church will be socially inclusive to gays, just not inclusive in any way that really matters, which is in the gospel of Christ.

I see things haven’t changed in the slightest.

It never ceases to amaze me, how people say that Mormons are “softening” on gay issues. It’s all Public Relations to be more mainstream, nothing more.

Nothing has changed. Gay people who are married to women, or celibate gays, are not really living authentic lives. Nothing you can say will make me believe otherwise. So the fact that the Mormon church is accepting of these poor individuals is only playing with a technicality and loophole. It’s not real acceptance.

Sadly, authentic openly gay people either dating or married to a same-sex partner, will never be accepted by Mormons. Which only goes to prove the fallacy of the religious precepts of the prophets who are in charge of the church.

I believe in Jesus, and I believe in God. I feel inspired by the gospel and I do not need to follow a church in order to feel blessed.

Alas, nothing has changed really… If anything has changed, pro-gay Mormons have just become a little less… Mormon.

Please cite your source that explains why the “gay agenda is harmful for our children.” Also cite your source for “Environment is a leading cause in expression of homosexuality.” Why? Because both statements run contrary to what *science* has proven.

Just a couple of sources that back up my position and prove yours wrong:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19014-children-of-lesbian-parents-do-better-than-their-peers.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11534970

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/253/5023/1034.abstract

For crying out loud, if what you said was true, we would not have 1500 non-human animal species in which homosexuality is observed. In fact, the bonobos apes (our closest relative on the planet, with whom we share 97 percent of our DNA) have lesbianism as their primary form of sexual congress.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

Nice victim blaming at the end, though. I can’t imagine why gay folks would be depressed, suicidal, etc. given the kind of propagandistic nonsense that they are exposed to by things like what you posted.

BTW, I’m a straight, married, middle-aged woman who believes in Jesus’ teachings. One of the things he taught was to love our neighbors as ourselves … and there was no codicil about “unless your neighbor is gay.” You cannot pretend to love your gay family members whilst simultaneously promoting lies about them, Joe. Sorry.