Jan.18.2010
10:59 pm
by Laura
Making a Federal Case Out of It
So, there’s this little trial going on in San Francisco’s Federal Court house this week. Justice Vaughn Walker is hearing arguments as to whether one of the latest provisions in California’s constitution - the one enacted by Proposition 8 - infringes upon the federal rights of gays and lesbians who wish to marry.
Hearings began last week with great anticipation as the trial was to be the first federal court case in the West which allowed cameras in the courtroom. A last-minute request to the Supreme Court resulted in a stay on the broadcasting while the nation’s top nine justices decided whether or not cameras should be allowed in the courtroom (and whether proceedings should be simulcast in courtrooms around the nation and tape-delayed broadcasts should be allowed on YouTube).
In a 5-4 decision issued in the midst of the third day of hearings in Walker’s courtroom, the U.S. Supreme Court said it wasn’t time for cameras in this case. Folks from the Protect Marriage coalition were delighted, as they feared public broadcast of the proceedings would result in harassment and danger for their witnesses and would prevent their witnesses from wanting to speak up in defense of traditional marriage.
The Yes on 8 folks (the defendants in this case) went one step further and asked Justice Walker to stop all video recordings and destroy the tapes made of the first couple of days’ testimonies. Walker denied that request, saying the tapes would be preserved for him to review as needed when he was making his decision. So far, two expert witnesses and one defendant-intervenor have requested to/declined to testify because of the videotaping (even though the only one who will watch the video post-trial will be the judge and the only ones who will see the video in process are those who can fit into the couple of rooms at the SF courthouse where the trial is taking place.
Despite the lack of video, there’s been enough interest in the trial that several bloggers and news media outlets are providing gavel-to-gavel coverage via blogs, tweets and online news coverage. Here’s a list of some of the places where you can go find out what’s happening. The hearings resume Tuesday morning with more expert witnesses for the plaintiffs, a gay couple and a lesbian couple who wish to wed. Experts from the defense will take the stand later in the week (or early next week). The trial is expected to last another 5-10 days.
Astute readers wanting to get a full picture of what’s happening at the court will make an effort to follow more than just one blog or Twitter feed, as each blogger/tweeter brings his/her own bias to the proceedings. The differing details and points of view are interesting to note and, taken together, fill in many (if not most) of the gaps.
Traditional Marriage blogs and tweets:
We haven’t found any Yes on 8 folks who’ve been doing in-depth “as it happens” live blogging about the trial. If you know of someone, we’re happy to share -
Marriage equality blogs and tweets:
Media (including legal-related newspapers) blogs and tweets:
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Now, for you legal geeks (or those of you who’d like to become legal geeks):
The Court’s official site for Perry v Schwarzenegger is here: https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/09cv2292/ Because of the high interest in this case, there are several documents provided at this site in addition to the court’s official PACER records. If there aren’t enough documents at this site, there are instructions for setting up a PACER file (which you can do online if you’ve got a credit card - some of the documents in the PACER system have fees for downloading).
For those of you wondering what each side is trying to prove, the following two links are the facts as defined by each side. (Note, the links are to pdf documents which are a 20-30 pages long.)
Plaintiff’s proposed facts:
http://legalpad.typepad.com/files/plaintiff-proposed-facts.pdf
Defendant’s proposed facts:
http://legalpad.typepad.com/files/8-proposed-facts.pdf
The following documents are the bits of evidence each side is planning to use/may use in trying to prove the facts noted above. (Note, these links are also to .pdf documents, each of which is more than 100 pages long.). Several of these documents have been entered into evidence in the hearing already.
Plaintiffs evidence: https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/09cv2292/files/451-1.pdf
Defendants evidence: https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/09cv2292/files/440-main.pdf
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If you’ve run into other trial coverage that you’d like to share, please add it to the comments.
Filed in Uncategorized, mormons |
Great resources Laura, thanks for taking the time to share this. One of my FB friends mentioned the other day that someone he knows is going to actually recreate a dramatization of the trial proceedings since at this point no cameras are alowed in. As soon as I get the info I’ll share it with you.
Yes, Laura, thanks for a list of those websites. I’ve been following on http://prop8trialtracker.com/ since day 2 of the trial. Lots of commentary on that site. And, I’m really learning a lot. I need to check out some of the other sites.
And thanks for keeping this site up and running.
Sheryl
Hi, everyone. Yes, thanks for putting up all of the resources. It’s pretty telling, IMO, that the Prop 8 folks are not allowing comments on their site, are not providing transcription, etc. Sometimes, after reading FDL and the Trial Tracker site, I go over to the Prop 8 site and wonder if they are even on the same planet as the actual testimony because their summaries are so off-base from what is being said.
Over at the Trial Tracker, we are becoming quite a community. There has only been one troll (so far … it’s early days), and even that person has been polite for the most part.
For those of you wanting to skip the “slanted” versions of transcripts provided by bloggers, reporters, tweeters, etc., you can check out the unsigned court transcripts here. Thanks to AFER (the American Foundation for Equal Rights).
Each day’s transcripts are a .pdf document.
Also, for those of you particularly interested in the involvement of the LDS Church in the trial’s proceedings, documents were discussed this afternoon (day 7).
There are commentaries about LDS involvement at the prop8trialtracker and firedoglake sites.
Look forward to thoughts on today’s trial events (specifically the Church’s involvement).
Both sides have rested as of this morning. Judge Walker is going to review documents, and has asked that the orders to compel be complied with by 2/26. At that time, he will announce when closing arguments will be heard. More to come, obviously.
I must say that, IMNSHO, the defender/intervener side shot themselves in the foot with their two willing witnesses, to say nothing of their hostile one. Painful to read the testimony, to be quite honest … an “expert witness” who was fed 180 of his 203 documents by the lawyers and clearly hadn’t bothered to read any of them? Another one who says he peer reviews his own work? Wow.
Yes, the defense witnesses did have one wondering what they were experts in. Too bad the trial wasn’t on youtube. so many more people would have seen the Prop8 side for what it is.
thank you again, Laura, for having this website and keeping it up and running after the election.
sheryl
I just wanted to stop by and thank you for this site and everything you’re doing in the name of marriage equality. I won’t lie; since Prop H8 passed, I haven’t had anything nice to say about the LDS church or the majority of its members. Seeing what they did, witnessing the lies the spread, the “we’re the victims” spin they shamelessly put on every story, and the way they tried to wash their hands of the whole mess afterward with their calls for “respect” and “tolerance” and all that two-faced nonsense…well, it enraged me to the point of actively hating the entire organization. I was fine with that, returning hatred with hatred. I have joyously sounded off on polygamous hypocrites, “magic underwear,” and angels named Moron…i. I have left no stone unturned in my quest to belittle and abuse the LDS church and its followers, hoping to share some of my community’s pain with them, even if it’s only a fraction.
And then I start hearing talk of this site, talk about a group of Mormons who aren’t evil, aren’t bigots. I resisted further investigation for a variety of reasons: they’re probably lying, they’re still aligned with the enemy…I want to keep hating them because it’s easier.
And here I am anyway. In the end (as always) my curiosity got the better of me and I came to have a look for myself. Imagine my surprise to find that I like what I see here.
Your site hasn’t changed my mind about the LDS church. I still think it’s an evil institution run by evil men with evil goals in their evil minds, and I still think the world would be a better place if it would just crumble and disappear into the sands of time, forgotten forever. But you know what this site has accomplished? I no longer paint all Mormons with the same sticky, venomous brush. Some of you are actually human beings, and now I always have that in mind when I’m about to go off on an anti-LDS rant, causing me to choose my words more carefully.
I’m sure you’d love for me to forgive the LDS hierarchy, maybe even become a Mormon myself, but I can’t (and won’t) give you that much. What I can give you is a sincere (and truthfully, still slightly begrudging) thank you. It may not be as comfortable as my previously dichotomous outlook, but I’ve always prided myself on being a realist anyway. I’ll probably remain angry at the LDS church for many, many years to come…but that will forever be tempered with the knowledge that folks like this website’s creators exist.
I know this probably sounds like a bunch of backhanded compliments, and I apologize if you take offense at anything I’ve said in this rant. You haven’t made me fall in love with the church, but you have made me fall out of hate with the entirety of its membership. I hope you understand where I’m coming from, and I hope that’s good enough for now.
Honestly,
Vernon
Vernon-
Thank you for your honesty. We recognize that Mormonism is not for everybody (and may be a particularly painful spiritual path for some, as our stories attest). If an apology were offered, it might be nice to accept it, but a grudging acceptance of reality is just fine (that’s how we cope too, you know).
We are happy that you’ve met, via this site, some Mormons who don’t fit the homophobic stereotype that’s been forced upon you by actions of some. Only through thoughtful conversation and recognition that we are all human beings with needs for love and acceptance can we tear down the walls of ignorance and fear and truly open ourselves up to understanding the best that is in each of us.
It is rare that any group lives up to its stereotypes 100%. True for gays, true for atheists, true for religionists, true for scientists, true for straights, true for Mormons and anti-Mormons. Just true. Let’s keep telling each other our stories and let’s keep sharing them with others we meet in the hopes that we can all be nicer to one another. That’s what we’re here for - coming together long enough to have a civil discourse, and sometimes agreeing to disagree, but finishing with a new-found respect and appreciation for others and their myriad points of view.
Oh, and why some of us stay within the “enemies’ walls?” We are slowly chipping away at the fear and the prejudice and taking steps to shine some light on some very dark, scary and filthy places. Progress is being made, be it ever so slowly. In some congregations, there is little to no obvious discrimination or fearmongering tolerated. Others are not so lucky. But every place a candle is lit is one more place that is not so dark. No, it’s not for everyone, but perhaps some day it will be better for all. Perhaps if we stay and make a safe place for a moment, it will prevent another light from being extinguished by suicide.
Last night, I had the honor of hearing an out transperson, Drew House, speak about his experiences growing up in the LDS church and what has happened to him since he transitioned — the crises of faith, the issues within his family, etc.
Yet, Drew still remains in the church for exactly the reasons Laura cites (believe me, we asked). He believes that the only way to change hearts and minds is one person at a time, from the inside.
My parents are LDS, and they have (finally) given up on getting me to join. They are appalled at the church’s involvement in politics, in direct opposition to its stated apolitical stance, and have said so often enough that I think they’re worried about their standing. It’s sad that people can be threatened with excommunication/shunning/whathaveyou for standing up for the rights of people everywhere and I can only hope that one day the “prophet” will have a “revelation” that all people are equal under the law.
wow, don’t check this site for several days and full of comments.
Vernon, thank you for posting here. Glad we have been able to help you see that not all Mormons blindly follow the Prophet. I’ve given a lot of thought lately as to why I am remaining in the LDS Church. And I agree that working from the inside is a good approach. I was raised LDS, my mother’s side of the family were some of the early pioneers who came across the plains (both sides of her family). Polygamy is in my family background. One grandfather had died before having to choose a wife. The other chose the mother of his children, my grandfather loved to shock people telling them that he remembered when his parents were married (many long years ago this was). I seem to be digressing but also am trying to explain why I am not sure I could feel comfortable in another church (could be wrong). Also, I’ve had my own personal revelations. I just wish my church had not been so involved in this campaign and had not lied about the extent of their involvement. While I know that many LDS voted Yes on 8 because we are told that if we obey the Prophet and he leads us astray we will not be held accountable. But, we are also told to seek our own answer and to research and pray for our answers (of course, the unspoken is that you will get the same answer). Well, I did not and I had to vote my conscience. I am sure the fact that my son is gay (and until the church’s involvement in the Yes on 8 campaign did not mind being raised Mormon. I’m glad that I can tell him about how some Wards handled the issue (the ward we used to belong to did not allow discussions during church meetings (except for the obligatory letters the bishop had to read). That is the stake that is reaching out in love to it’s LGBTs and their families. Wish I could say the same about my ward and stake. That has helped soften his heart.
We are individuals and unfortunately we bring our humanness with us as religious people. My mother would have had a difficult time dealing with her grandson being gay (not to mention having a gr. grandson who his gay). I’ve lived in California more than half of my life (how I got to be this old, I don’t know) and have worked and socialized with gays and lesbians. People, just like me and I’ve learned a lot from them.
Okay, I do seem to be rambling. But thanks in advance to anyone reading.
Vernon, if you have not read it, read Carol Lynn Pearson’s “Circling our Wagons”. She is a strong Mormon working from within to change things. She was married to a Gay man (that story is “Good-bye I love You”). Of if you have the chance see her play “Facing East”
For those of you are wondering, we’ve documented the LDS Church involvement in this project in-depth in our timeline here. We’ve linked to others’ timelines here.
If the depth of LDS involvement in Prop 8 and other same-sex marriage issues was a surprise that was revealed as evidence in the trial came up, it was only because the church itself wasn’t advertising how much it was doing.
Closing arguments in the Perry v. Schwarzenegger case are scheduled for June 16. Judge Walker today ruled that, as before, cameras will not be permitted in the courtroom. Plans over at http://www.prop8trialtracker.com are that, as while the case was being tried, someone will live-blog the event so that we have real-time information.
Thanks for this info Fiona. Sure wish there was some transparency here - but at least it’s moving forward.
Just a reminder that closing arguments re: Perry v. Schwarzenegger take place tomorrow in Judge Walker’s courtroom. As previously noted, there will be no cameras (which, IMO, is a shame). You can follow the “action” by visiting http://www.prop8trialtracker.com, where Courage Campaign volunteers will be live-blogging from the court house and our gang of interested spectators will be commenting.
Closing arguments are now finished; you can see liveblogging, commentary, links to official transcripts and the documents to which they refer at http://www.prop8trialtracker.com.
It was quite a ride yesterday.
I am confident that a favorable ruling will be made … and equally confident that the “good people” on the other side of the fence will appeal. I never thought I would see the day when people would use the ballot box to take away existing rights from other people.
Judge Walker’s decision is going to be published today, between 1 and 3 PM PDT.
I am hopeful that love and equality will rule the day.
http://prop8trialtracker.com/2010/08/04/breaking-prop-8-ruled-unconstitutional
Love and equality, as well as the rule of law, have won the day.